Okay, but let’s be fr- that was too hasty. We all know how fashion and society were way back then, fashion just gradually evolved, I feel like MC should stop pushing it to be accepted way fast, at this rate she gonna make modern clothes a trend during her time of living. Let fashion evolve, gee.
Also, I don’t care who disagrees or hates this, but MC is way too ignorant to want everyone to normalize and accept things that were deemed inappropriate, abnormal, and vulgar, especially when you are the queen?
@bubblegumpop: totally agree with this.
She can change it over years, slowly and bit by bit as it will take time.
I also do not know why she is such an airhead … she started well and now the author made her dumb
I didn’t take it that way. It looks to me like she disagrees with the “women are loved by their husbands when they are beautiful and quiet” reasoning that justifies everything else he said and did… including giving her poison for the sake of her husband’s affection. Take, for example, her actual husband. Would he agree with that statement? It has little to do with her clothing.
Tell me you don’t understand the actual deep meaning without telling me you don’t understand the actual deep meaning. MC for all I care isn’t trying to change the fashion industry because it’s unfashionable or so what. It’s not even about clothes in her mind neither in mine but more of a body image. Although it’s safe to say obese isn’t cute or healthy, being skinny in the manners of forcing so (vomiting, comparison, starvation) is not healthy (physically and mentally). Although I can agree with you that maybe she’s being too ignorant into thinking she can change peoples mentality about the dress code for WOMEN (and girls) for the sake of being labeled as a beauty by men may not work as were talking about the traditional era where there is such thing as “pain is beauty.” Society is cruel, back then you had to be chubby in order to bear children and not skinny because you’d die then it turned into yeah lets go with slim because it’s beautiful and fat is disgusting and is a sin and then to wanting thick girls and slandering skinny girls and categorizing them into the eating disorder genre to skinny girl legend and if you are over 100 pounds your obese and no man will want you…it goes both ways. It sucked as I’ve been through binge eating (over weight) and eventually into trying to freaking not eat/v0m!ting for the sake of being pretty in people’s minds. It’s sad because although you could say “well it’s an era where it’s the standard” you also can’t be closed mindlessly and forget that actual WOMEN advocated for the removal of corsets/poisonous makeup during the freaking time era. To say something is wrong because of the time era, could you say the same thing for arranged marriages of old men and young kids? Would you justify that and be like “it’s the standard of time! you can’t change it!” like I know I can’t change it but I can acknowledge it and you can simply stop being an insensitive ass hole. (this ass whole sentence isn’t meant for those who commented on this chapter but the rest is) My point is, it’s not about the clothing (well kinda considering they were carefully standardized by men to suit women and little girls) but toxic body image. And I relate to MC and I feel so bad as I know women and girls (and men!) who goes through this. Please make sure ya’ll understand in depth to truly connect please. MC is already getting enough hate for simply being too kind to a literal child who was hated and harassed by OG villainess and her douche bag of a father who wanted nothing to do with women (understandable but don’t punish the kid for it).
^
I agree with you; I was like “i don’t think it’s even about fashion but more of body image.” I understand fashion is the great essence of these periods but at the same time, I think she wants to change the normalization of toxicity of what it means of beauty. But I don’t know it’s just my opinion haha…?
no it wasnt inappropiat abnormal or shit, and if you are a queen wouldnt that make you more influential to how society sees everytone? Also yeah sh e did create a new dress thing, but isn’t that good so society can form to normalize such things that were taboo who cares if it would stir uo or whatever because women have to bee normalized and maybe clothing will form better in the future also she is not ignorant she korean with knowledge of clothing lmao0 you literally dont know what your talking about. dang people bee stupid deez dazs
I agree with you. I don’t think people realize that you are writing about the part where MC creates an ankle-showin dress ? which some might find funny. I do think it’s hilarious that MC wants fashion to evolve rapidly, along with people who don’t believe fashion and bOdy ImAge are related, historically it is, what about corsets? what about vulgarness, which literally involves body image that people standardly needed to cover up, it is still happening in parts of the world lmao. Sum need to read carefully.???.
Sigh. I hope you enjoy my essay about fashion, and what I mean by that because, clearly, people like to deeply think about things. (also sorry for my grammar :P)
Fashion, or what I meant to say, a societal standard of that time, was different and reflected how people were (and how society was functioning). Clearly, from the art, MC is using staple fashion standards that happened long after her era. Interesting plot or choice of how to write a novel, but it would confuse some people (like me). Before my long-asZ essay, I would like to state, that obviously the author is writing this based on Western or whatever history, or at least relating this to history, that is obvious, anyway…
Her choices of dresses from previous chapters resemble more of the Enlightenment period (18th century, and ironically, it was Queen Antionette who made this style attractive ). Now, that is her average choice of dresses, but she comes up with (concocted ideas) dresses to impress/attract attention- dresses made until YEARS later. And something I would love to mention is that dresses were not only a high society trend, but from movement and change of culture. Fashion was considered art. Anyway, weirdly enough (if I remember correctly), the Main character made a trend that happened before such other trends appeared, so it went reverse, which was pretty confusing to see.
After the Enlightenment, fashion was progressing, and Bam!! I am going to move it to America, where, you guessed it, long dresses were still a societal standard for women!! Ankles were heavily fetishes, and so was Europe. Now let’s talk about Europe again, wow!! Would’ve never guessed it- long dresses were a trend! (Also, ideas of obscenity were not necessarily the reason dresses were like that, but because ideas haven’t formed, I don’t know how to explain it, but historically it was scandalizing for both men and women to intentionally show ankles, because it had a meaning, other than that, it was fine to show ankles to walk upstairs, lmao). This is not to say that ankles were inappropriate and not acceptable, but if we look at the main characters’ form of preference, it was clear it was around the 1600s or 1700s. And historically speaking, around the 1800s (1890s) it was acceptable- not. I swear, ANKLES WERE CONSIDERED MORE VULGAR THAN THE CHEST AREA :))- it seriously was about the meaning. Because almost every reason had a meaning.
Anyway, I can’t provide exact dates or names of dresses because Europe, the New World, etc., are wholly different, but the ideas themself were very similar. If we look at the main character’s choice of dress right now, (the ankle) it’s so awkward. We have a mix of almost different periods of fashion choices clumped into one singular dress. (Yes. Body image did link to fashion :))) Even before and after the Civil War, long dresses were still a standard. So we have a main character skipping long periods of history to ‘prove a point’ and to attract attention from high society. Great. Also originality. This is not to say that it was okay, but what I am saying, it’s selfishly ignorant to believe a movement that is still not accepted to be accepted at a time where a woman’s chest was more acceptable than her ankles. Even during the 1920s, it was illegal for a woman to show their legs to go for a swim. Come on, yall let’s be rational. If the authors add something for all readers to enjoy (where someone is reborn, or whatever to a Western point), someone will call it out, especially when, in a way, it is coordinating with actual history, someone will have something to say.
Also, to respond to the “because it’s the standard thing” I did not mean to go off like that, but I believe if an author is going to make someone, again, link with actual history, someone will have something to say, it’s pure common sense. It’s not a big deal. Am I insensitive? Anyone can believe so, but I genuinely do not care, because I was simply stating something related to “FAcTuaL wHatEveR” to this particular manga. As a woman, I will respond with only my genuine feelings, and I believe it’s confusing to have a lady who is smart, smart, and bright? from the “real world” and from an almost developing era, to be confident to show something that seems so little TODAY, show it where it was not accepted in that era. Also, isn’t this lady knowledgeable of Western historical attire? I guess not. Also, I was not talking about her brother, yes, obviously men did care about dignity back then (unlike now…) but his reaction is something I would love to punch, and his shrimp. What I meant to explain is why introduce such a concept to YEARS and PERIODS before it actually happened. Also, I was solely talking about fashion or what y’all want me to say: the reflection of society, shaped by movements and new ideas, and usually defined by attire that varies by title and gender- no other thing. Gee, please read my previous comment before commenting.
I believe you poorly wrote your first comment, but obviously, you did not intend to do so. I do believe what the future would hold is an unimaginable thought because the author is writing a confusing story.
If I am being honest, the dresses she is wearing resemble the attire of the 1700s, but I agree with what you are saying. The body image is related to fashion, there is not much explanation for the reasoning because it’s obvious. It is a bit wincing and quite hilarious to see a “fashion” major lady or whatever be so “knowledgable” of Western historical attire, whilst not knowing any history herself. It’s also entertaining to see people triggered by a comment that was going towards the main character’s choice of dress earlier in the chapter (ankles) I believe you were talking about that, yet so many seem you don’t understand the chapter itself. It’s not that deep, it’s just a factual opinion.
My opinion is that simply because a story isn’t historically accurate does not mean we should defend it, but in your case, you were talking about dresses- not ped o phil ia. What we call body image right now was not really a term or something that existed during the Elizabethan era, or during any period. Look at us now. I believe readers should not be so fired up by an opinion that was going towards MC’s choice of thinking, no one else. Again, fashion and how people dressed themselves were the standard and were linked to “body image” -those were not 100% separate things.
@idependent thinker. Just like what @Bubblegumpop was stating, her dresses resemble the time closely before the 1800s, corsets were being advocated a few years later. And to add something, corsets are still a fashion statement, I am certain I am not wearing corsets to break ribs, but I believe the corset adds flavor to my pirate costume I want to wear. Ankles were not normalized at ALL, it’s only been a “few” years until the normalization of wearing things that showed ankles were okay. There is also a difference between acknowledging and adding something that would simply not make sense. Again MC is supposedly knowledgeable about historical facts, yet she introduces, not acknowledges, introduces a piece of movement that does happen until PERIODS later.
The main character is dense to introduce something that is not familiar with any idea or movement, but simply to introduce it for shock factor. Principally, your argument is not wrong, but to a factual opinion, it does not make sense.
I just got back to reading this and comments be blowin’ up! I’ll be honest and admit I didn’t read all that (too much too late at night). I’d like to add an insight though. If all the words are still about why-she-be-pushin’-clothes-too-fast, then what if that’s what the author wants? At its core this story is revolving around two women (one dead and one isekai’d) who have body image issues. Where did that come from? What the initial commenter wrote and what the imaginary character did both come from the same vein… a perspective that an individual’s behavior and desire for self actualization should have limits (insert reason here). It seems reasonable to show that with a character who pushes limits in the story, no? Unfortunately Mrs. MC has to go through both the slaps and the indignant commenters for there to be sympathy, realization, and change… just like how it happened/happens for all the ladyfolk that put up with this @^*# in real life.
AoiSkides
Let him be caught! Attacking royalty is treason.
bubblegumpop
Okay, but let’s be fr- that was too hasty. We all know how fashion and society were way back then, fashion just gradually evolved, I feel like MC should stop pushing it to be accepted way fast, at this rate she gonna make modern clothes a trend during her time of living. Let fashion evolve, gee.
Also, I don’t care who disagrees or hates this, but MC is way too ignorant to want everyone to normalize and accept things that were deemed inappropriate, abnormal, and vulgar, especially when you are the queen?
Tereses24
F this piece of trash ?️…need another episode ASAP!
FlySkyyyy
@bubblegumpop: totally agree with this.
She can change it over years, slowly and bit by bit as it will take time.
I also do not know why she is such an airhead … she started well and now the author made her dumb
TheSleepless
Verite would not just wait. He is already telling the emperor what is happening most likely and he is running to the room
slanted
@bubblegumpop
I didn’t take it that way. It looks to me like she disagrees with the “women are loved by their husbands when they are beautiful and quiet” reasoning that justifies everything else he said and did… including giving her poison for the sake of her husband’s affection. Take, for example, her actual husband. Would he agree with that statement? It has little to do with her clothing.
idependent thinker
Tell me you don’t understand the actual deep meaning without telling me you don’t understand the actual deep meaning. MC for all I care isn’t trying to change the fashion industry because it’s unfashionable or so what. It’s not even about clothes in her mind neither in mine but more of a body image. Although it’s safe to say obese isn’t cute or healthy, being skinny in the manners of forcing so (vomiting, comparison, starvation) is not healthy (physically and mentally). Although I can agree with you that maybe she’s being too ignorant into thinking she can change peoples mentality about the dress code for WOMEN (and girls) for the sake of being labeled as a beauty by men may not work as were talking about the traditional era where there is such thing as “pain is beauty.” Society is cruel, back then you had to be chubby in order to bear children and not skinny because you’d die then it turned into yeah lets go with slim because it’s beautiful and fat is disgusting and is a sin and then to wanting thick girls and slandering skinny girls and categorizing them into the eating disorder genre to skinny girl legend and if you are over 100 pounds your obese and no man will want you…it goes both ways. It sucked as I’ve been through binge eating (over weight) and eventually into trying to freaking not eat/v0m!ting for the sake of being pretty in people’s minds. It’s sad because although you could say “well it’s an era where it’s the standard” you also can’t be closed mindlessly and forget that actual WOMEN advocated for the removal of corsets/poisonous makeup during the freaking time era. To say something is wrong because of the time era, could you say the same thing for arranged marriages of old men and young kids? Would you justify that and be like “it’s the standard of time! you can’t change it!” like I know I can’t change it but I can acknowledge it and you can simply stop being an insensitive ass hole. (this ass whole sentence isn’t meant for those who commented on this chapter but the rest is) My point is, it’s not about the clothing (well kinda considering they were carefully standardized by men to suit women and little girls) but toxic body image. And I relate to MC and I feel so bad as I know women and girls (and men!) who goes through this. Please make sure ya’ll understand in depth to truly connect please. MC is already getting enough hate for simply being too kind to a literal child who was hated and harassed by OG villainess and her douche bag of a father who wanted nothing to do with women (understandable but don’t punish the kid for it).
Lonelypluto
^
I agree with you; I was like “i don’t think it’s even about fashion but more of body image.” I understand fashion is the great essence of these periods but at the same time, I think she wants to change the normalization of toxicity of what it means of beauty. But I don’t know it’s just my opinion haha…?
GreenMangoes
@bubblegumpop
no it wasnt inappropiat abnormal or shit, and if you are a queen wouldnt that make you more influential to how society sees everytone? Also yeah sh e did create a new dress thing, but isn’t that good so society can form to normalize such things that were taboo who cares if it would stir uo or whatever because women have to bee normalized and maybe clothing will form better in the future also she is not ignorant she korean with knowledge of clothing lmao0 you literally dont know what your talking about. dang people bee stupid deez dazs
Goo Goo Ga Ga
@GreenMangoes
Bruh you can’t spell right ?
@bubblegumpop
I agree with you. I don’t think people realize that you are writing about the part where MC creates an ankle-showin dress ? which some might find funny. I do think it’s hilarious that MC wants fashion to evolve rapidly, along with people who don’t believe fashion and bOdy ImAge are related, historically it is, what about corsets? what about vulgarness, which literally involves body image that people standardly needed to cover up, it is still happening in parts of the world lmao. Sum need to read carefully.???.
bubblegumpop
Sigh. I hope you enjoy my essay about fashion, and what I mean by that because, clearly, people like to deeply think about things. (also sorry for my grammar :P)
Fashion, or what I meant to say, a societal standard of that time, was different and reflected how people were (and how society was functioning). Clearly, from the art, MC is using staple fashion standards that happened long after her era. Interesting plot or choice of how to write a novel, but it would confuse some people (like me). Before my long-asZ essay, I would like to state, that obviously the author is writing this based on Western or whatever history, or at least relating this to history, that is obvious, anyway…
Her choices of dresses from previous chapters resemble more of the Enlightenment period (18th century, and ironically, it was Queen Antionette who made this style attractive ). Now, that is her average choice of dresses, but she comes up with (concocted ideas) dresses to impress/attract attention- dresses made until YEARS later. And something I would love to mention is that dresses were not only a high society trend, but from movement and change of culture. Fashion was considered art. Anyway, weirdly enough (if I remember correctly), the Main character made a trend that happened before such other trends appeared, so it went reverse, which was pretty confusing to see.
After the Enlightenment, fashion was progressing, and Bam!! I am going to move it to America, where, you guessed it, long dresses were still a societal standard for women!! Ankles were heavily fetishes, and so was Europe. Now let’s talk about Europe again, wow!! Would’ve never guessed it- long dresses were a trend! (Also, ideas of obscenity were not necessarily the reason dresses were like that, but because ideas haven’t formed, I don’t know how to explain it, but historically it was scandalizing for both men and women to intentionally show ankles, because it had a meaning, other than that, it was fine to show ankles to walk upstairs, lmao). This is not to say that ankles were inappropriate and not acceptable, but if we look at the main characters’ form of preference, it was clear it was around the 1600s or 1700s. And historically speaking, around the 1800s (1890s) it was acceptable- not. I swear, ANKLES WERE CONSIDERED MORE VULGAR THAN THE CHEST AREA :))- it seriously was about the meaning. Because almost every reason had a meaning.
Anyway, I can’t provide exact dates or names of dresses because Europe, the New World, etc., are wholly different, but the ideas themself were very similar. If we look at the main character’s choice of dress right now, (the ankle) it’s so awkward. We have a mix of almost different periods of fashion choices clumped into one singular dress. (Yes. Body image did link to fashion :))) Even before and after the Civil War, long dresses were still a standard. So we have a main character skipping long periods of history to ‘prove a point’ and to attract attention from high society. Great. Also originality. This is not to say that it was okay, but what I am saying, it’s selfishly ignorant to believe a movement that is still not accepted to be accepted at a time where a woman’s chest was more acceptable than her ankles. Even during the 1920s, it was illegal for a woman to show their legs to go for a swim. Come on, yall let’s be rational. If the authors add something for all readers to enjoy (where someone is reborn, or whatever to a Western point), someone will call it out, especially when, in a way, it is coordinating with actual history, someone will have something to say.
Also, to respond to the “because it’s the standard thing” I did not mean to go off like that, but I believe if an author is going to make someone, again, link with actual history, someone will have something to say, it’s pure common sense. It’s not a big deal. Am I insensitive? Anyone can believe so, but I genuinely do not care, because I was simply stating something related to “FAcTuaL wHatEveR” to this particular manga. As a woman, I will respond with only my genuine feelings, and I believe it’s confusing to have a lady who is smart, smart, and bright? from the “real world” and from an almost developing era, to be confident to show something that seems so little TODAY, show it where it was not accepted in that era. Also, isn’t this lady knowledgeable of Western historical attire? I guess not. Also, I was not talking about her brother, yes, obviously men did care about dignity back then (unlike now…) but his reaction is something I would love to punch, and his shrimp. What I meant to explain is why introduce such a concept to YEARS and PERIODS before it actually happened. Also, I was solely talking about fashion or what y’all want me to say: the reflection of society, shaped by movements and new ideas, and usually defined by attire that varies by title and gender- no other thing. Gee, please read my previous comment before commenting.
Have a cookie~ ?
The Princesse de Broglie
@bubblegumpop
I believe you poorly wrote your first comment, but obviously, you did not intend to do so. I do believe what the future would hold is an unimaginable thought because the author is writing a confusing story.
If I am being honest, the dresses she is wearing resemble the attire of the 1700s, but I agree with what you are saying. The body image is related to fashion, there is not much explanation for the reasoning because it’s obvious. It is a bit wincing and quite hilarious to see a “fashion” major lady or whatever be so “knowledgable” of Western historical attire, whilst not knowing any history herself. It’s also entertaining to see people triggered by a comment that was going towards the main character’s choice of dress earlier in the chapter (ankles) I believe you were talking about that, yet so many seem you don’t understand the chapter itself. It’s not that deep, it’s just a factual opinion.
My opinion is that simply because a story isn’t historically accurate does not mean we should defend it, but in your case, you were talking about dresses- not ped o phil ia. What we call body image right now was not really a term or something that existed during the Elizabethan era, or during any period. Look at us now. I believe readers should not be so fired up by an opinion that was going towards MC’s choice of thinking, no one else. Again, fashion and how people dressed themselves were the standard and were linked to “body image” -those were not 100% separate things.
@idependent thinker. Just like what @Bubblegumpop was stating, her dresses resemble the time closely before the 1800s, corsets were being advocated a few years later. And to add something, corsets are still a fashion statement, I am certain I am not wearing corsets to break ribs, but I believe the corset adds flavor to my pirate costume I want to wear. Ankles were not normalized at ALL, it’s only been a “few” years until the normalization of wearing things that showed ankles were okay. There is also a difference between acknowledging and adding something that would simply not make sense. Again MC is supposedly knowledgeable about historical facts, yet she introduces, not acknowledges, introduces a piece of movement that does happen until PERIODS later.
The main character is dense to introduce something that is not familiar with any idea or movement, but simply to introduce it for shock factor. Principally, your argument is not wrong, but to a factual opinion, it does not make sense.
slanted
I just got back to reading this and comments be blowin’ up! I’ll be honest and admit I didn’t read all that (too much too late at night). I’d like to add an insight though. If all the words are still about why-she-be-pushin’-clothes-too-fast, then what if that’s what the author wants? At its core this story is revolving around two women (one dead and one isekai’d) who have body image issues. Where did that come from? What the initial commenter wrote and what the imaginary character did both come from the same vein… a perspective that an individual’s behavior and desire for self actualization should have limits (insert reason here). It seems reasonable to show that with a character who pushes limits in the story, no? Unfortunately Mrs. MC has to go through both the slaps and the indignant commenters for there to be sympathy, realization, and change… just like how it happened/happens for all the ladyfolk that put up with this @^*# in real life.